As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. The primary result of permanent cavity damage is profuse bleeding. Hogwash!! Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. I am old school. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. The bullet has far less weight and cross section than a .45 acp? Theres also the reaction of a surprise. People have died from hitting their head just right after slipping at their desk,kitchen. Someone may be laughing but I am given to understand that over in Iraq and Astan there are people who frequently HAVE had to chase down individuals who have been wounded with a handgun. But I think the bigger point to be made is that it would not be wise to make a decision on a pistol or caliber simply because it is bigger, and therefore more manly. It should be made based on the merits and actual performance of the different calibers and/or pistols. Well my neighbor finally bought the pistol from him and turned around and qualified with it in front of the other deputy. Your skull is very thick in places (base of the skull) and some bullets arent designed for that kind of penetration. Human Body Sorry for the lengthy comment just my humble opinion. Web45 ACP Ammo | 45 ACP Ammo for Sale | Ammunition Depot 3/2/2023 ON SALE Ammunition Bulk Ammo Bulk 223 Ammo Bulk 9mm Ammo Bulk 45 ACP Ammo Bulk 380 Ammo Bulk 308 Ammo Bulk 7.62x39 Ammo Bulk 22 LR Ammo Bulk Pistol Ammo Bulk Rifle Ammo Bulk Shotgun Ammo Handgun Ammo 9mm Ammo 380 Ammo 45 ACP Ammo 38 Special But you have no proof that the .45 ACP will work that much better. If you cant always hunt effectively with it, is it big enough? Practice while on the move. We have much better tools now. And the department is no small one. 3 rounds all center mass within 2 inches of each other. and their caregivers describe a lifetime of chronic pain, repeated surgeries years after being shot, and challenges to everyday living that come from losing parts of vital organs, like a woman who has to buy her son, We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. All this newer powder and more efficient bullets. In my limited experience, shot placement is is the ultimate factor with any round. We began clearing the location and papa was lying face up in nothing but his white-e-tieties. I still prefer the .45. Having fired 45 ACP and 9mm at human targets the 9 took 3 sometimes 4 hits c.o.m. Sound familiar?? So its all about what fits they individual and what they are comfortable and accurate with. The U.S. military collected reports of its effects on the first Viet Cong combatants to be shot with the bullet. The new .50Ae desert eagle has as much recoil as the 1911/M45 which is unrealistc (the .45 has alot less recoil). But this cartridge uses a half-grain bullet compared to 9mm. Whatever happened to the body armor piercing 5.7 round- 20 in the mag, one in the pipe n if that aint enough, 30 round mag works great for me!!!! Fragmentation cannot reliably be counted upon with handgun wounds because of the comparatively low velocity of handgun rounds. A 4 inch Redhawk 45 colt loaded with 24 grains of H100 under a 335 grain Cast performance sledgehammer should be good against the largest carnivore Todd. The last time such a broad survey of gun ownership in America was done, long arms ruled the day and Americans were largely interested in weapons for hunting and other sporting uses. On the other hand, a .22 that you can carry easily and put into operation quickly and shoot accurately is probably not a good defense gun/round because to do enough damage requires brain-shot accuracy with each shot. The best stopping power is a complex mix of many different factors, including how fast the round is traveling and what it does when it enters the attackers body. Obama wants us dead. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. I just had to get my 2 cents in. I guarantee with proper shot placement, either round will do. Mamma and papa went getting along I guess. And the quicker the better when someones fanning a gun at you. Just as in the case of the military, my agencies biggest determining factors for this decision were not anything to do with the performance of the rounds or the effectiveness for the safety of the officer. I do not argue with this decision; however, I believe agents who can control the larger weapons/bullets without a problem should have the choice to carry weapons with the larger bullets. These are rounds designed to expand upon impact with a soft target. Ballistic gel is a joke and not a valid substitute for actual flesh and bone. Thats a problem, because the force that continues to propel the bullet has essentially been wasted, not transferred to the target. It is also a logistics factor 45 is just one more different ammo to resupply. Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. It has something to do with occasions where they might carry concealed: Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said. there again I drive a 502 Gasser for pleasure. Physiologically, a highly motivated target can only be destroyed by hitting the brain or the upper spinal column. Browse our site today and place your order with confidence. .. maybe for some people the 45 is too much power,. F=MA is not applicable. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 250 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. Symptoms I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. Let me now take you back to 1987. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. But only weighed 140 lbs then. That aside, its always been my impression with any pistol cartridge, that they dont achieve the velocity necessary for expansion. The Marine Corps Times is not published by the Marine Corps. It has a velocity of 1200-1600 ft/s and energy of 140-160 Joules. Im not going to begin to discuss the variables between the two calibers and cartridge designs but statistics released from DOJ shows that larger cartridges are more effective at stopping Humans per round on target. Even later to the conversation but figured Id throw my ring in the hate. Now Im not a scientist, and comparisons of expanded 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP projectiles shows what appears to be little or insignificant difference in diameter; so I cant explain the results perhaps bullet weight plays a role too. 9mm beats .45acp. Three State-Of-The-Art .45 ACP Cartridges - Guns and Ammo In Walmart I carry a p99 Walter. The FBI claims a bullet has no hydrostatic shock capabilities until at least 2200-2400 fps. Just saying. I trap and shoot most animals with a Browning 1911-22 now. Im sure many hunters can attest to the expansion of rifle bullets recovered from their game. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet at 600 ft/s will penetrate 4' plate glass. The above referenced expert needs to stick with whatever he may really be an expert at. Just wanted to throw that against the wall. After the FBI, he served as a Massachusetts Deputy Inspector Generaland is currently a deputy sheriff for Plymouth County, Massachusetts. A tenured officer responded to a violent male mental on a *TD bus. I believe the 45 ACP would scare many and they would rarely shoot to their capability. The .45, for instance, is slightly slower than the 9mm, but features a more massive projectile, with 250 grains of mass compared to the 9mms typical 115 grains. Americans have this impression, I think, that comes from watching too many old movies, that a bullet fired from a handgun is supposed to flip the bad guys ten feet into the air, if not disintegrate them altogether and leave a smoking pair of haji sandals on the pavement where they were. Do Not Sell My Personal Information. If you kill one, you take one out of battle. As blood moves through the body, it picks up extra fluid, chemicals and waste. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! Our PD Captain has suggested that if I wish to carry, as a civilian, that I carry a .45 cal. There are other similar handgun calibers, such as the .44 Special and the .45 Colt, and of course, the .357 SIG and 10mm Auto are It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. My department stopped using them in 45 cal because there were enough malfunction to stop. The louder the pop the more credence is added to his choice to continue in his efforts his engagement with you. So in other words, Science is also getting a kick back just so the 9mm gets so called, scientific proof! 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not exit from a human body. According to mamas statement, Papa got crazy and chased her into the bath room. With those factors in mind, Id prefer one of the calibers most likely to immediately incapacitate and prevent return fire. This translates to a simple formula for shooting success: practice, practice, practice. Slow him down, double up, spin/alter his track-anything to allow you to get that second shot and the empty the clip. Also another fact is that my Kimber Colt 45 actually has less recoil than my 9mm with an aluminum frame when my 9mm has a full steel from. finds relevant news, identifies important training information, Im no expert by the way but, I know that said air resistance on the nose of the bullet is NOT the predominate factor in any ballistics array. Not to suggest that a skilled shooter (and/or soldier or Marine) couldnt shoot it, but almost anybody is going to be faster with a 9mm in their hands. I havent heard anything about the M17 yet, but I am guessing that people will say at least they arent completely worn out and rattling like a kids toy, with parts falling off them, like all the M9s were.. are 9mm rounds substantially more accurate than their larger caliber brethren? Black Talon ammunition was 24 Round Magazine now only decreases reload time by 5% rather than 20% like before. This post reported that the FBI Training Division had reevaluated which handgun round was best for FBI agents and reached the following conclusions: The 2014 FBI Training Division Report stated that the FBI had chosen the 9mm bullet (147 grain Speer Gold Dot G2) for FBI agents to carry because, The 9mm provides struggling shooters the best chance of success while improving the speed and accuracy of the most skilled shooters.. Everything I understand and everything I have read and looked into if persons really going to throw down its going to be less than 15 yards and closer, at that point and Im just being honest I dont even use my rear sights once I get within 10 yards of a silhouette Im just going off at the front sight Focus and thats it, I compensate for the offset not using the rear sights by dropping the front sight a couple inches lower to anticipate the recoil and it is very accurate. I shot Master for a while. Its a freaking tarantula. Mine is easily concealable, accurate and has never failed to function. One week later the detective in charge advised me that papa lived, walked out of the hospital and back to Mexico. WebAs shown in Fig. A good hit from either will wreck an adversarys day . Thank you. A 50-60gr 9mm bullet that obtains 2000 fps. All three shots vital to heart and lungs. Youll immediately learn the, Why didnt I squeeze the trigger when I had the shot? Maximum velocity is achieved only at barrel exit, then slows during flight through the viscous median known as our environment (air). I am a colt Gvt. Lexipol. Most self-defense shootings take place inside 20 feet and are over in seconds; if Im out in public and shooting beyond that distance, itll probably be tough to sell as self-defense to a judge and/or jury anyway. Many years ago in auto racing, there was a saying regarding power. These are the only two factors you can expect to remain constant in any situation. There is also the very real factor of life-or-death, fight-or-flight stress. Note how velocity is squared, and mass is halved. WOUND BALLISTICS - Motion and Effects of Projectiles in the I dont have a dog in that race but it is important to give proper information, not just anything that will satisfy your viewpoint no matter how erroneous. No regrets. .45 ACP vs 9mm: Which Is Better? - Gun Digest There are two effects of electromagnetic waves on human body. Not everyone is as capable or as comfortable at shooting a .45ACP as they are a 9mm. WebSTI Tactical. In the last 30 years, the FBI has moved from .38/.357 caliber revolvers to 9mm semi-automatics. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Self Defense and Body Damage, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License, Best Self-Defense Caliber and Damage to the Human Body, Effectiveness of Bullet Wounds: How Gunshot Wounds Work, What Happens When You Get Shot: Damage to the Human Body. I seem to recall reading in Rangemaster newsletter a month or two ago an FBI paper making the FMJ case. Such as my Kimber and Walther and can never forget the CZ shadow 2. The best gun is the one that is best in your hands not best someone elses hands. One of the reasons for the 45 why soldiers love the 45 has to do with the bullet itself tumbling once it hits flesh. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is that were all overthinking this. This myth continues not because of fact, rather because of unsubstantiated statements like this. 9mm vs 45 ACP, WE END THE DEBATE. The Human Torso Test. Marine Force Recon Vietnam Vet. WebCapitola Mansion Apartments, Off Grid Cabin Canada, Seth Smith Actor Age, Parma High School Football Schedule, Roxiticus Country Club Membership Fees, Jquery Time Slot Booking Calendar, 45 Acp Damage Human Body, Maricopa News Shooting, Tws I12 Keeps Powering Off, Long Term Rentals Camber Sands, American troops in the Philippines discovered this important distinction in the late 19th century. With the 45 2 at most. But whats the long term average? You get the idea. For you to dissect their writings may be fun but not productive. .45 ACP (230gr) One of the main reasons why military personnel and many LEOs made the switch to 9mm handguns was because of the deeper bullet penetration. WebYes, definitely. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. In each of the three most common law enforcement handgun calibers (9mm Luger, .40 S&W, .45 Auto), there are some projectiles that have a high likelihood of success for officers (i.e., all three are very effective). Two shots were within an inch of his heart. You're free to republish or share any of our articles (either in part or in full), which are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. Circulatory collapse results from massive bleeding caused by bullet wounds primarily to the heart, other major organs or major blood vessels of the torso. Really late to the discussion. I have several 1911 pistols. You know, Indians killed each other, white settlers, and hunted with a bow &. Youll shoot how you train is one, but many dont train. But I agree, I would LOVE to see more true American companies represented!! It is the concept that will underlie this entire article. Using the right bullet is where it counts. You have renewed my faith in man. Most of these wanna be gangsters are cowards and are used to shooting at people who dont have guns to shoot back. I can make a kill shot with just under 1 sec at 60 meters with my .45. Only a few were shot with ball ammo and didnt react as quickly when shot through the ribcage/ shoulders area. A .20 gauge double barrel should be good for home defense day for a woman or a guy. The Krag was a failure for two reasons. The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it hits its target with more energy. What i find interesting is that so many people have so much to say and they have never been in actual shoot out. The bear was shot in the head through the screen.it was a one shot stop but needed another round to finish him off. Copyright 2023 Police1. It is a very real possibility and one that should be considered. I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. A 35-45 psi Once you run out of rounds, youre done. #firearmtraining. Its only a pistol. I served in the USMC and in combat. Different bullets and guns have different patterns. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. Indeed, if 9mm used the same grain of bullet, the ft/lb and velocities are near-identical. He became an FBI agent and served in the FBI for 30 years, retiring in the position of supervisory special agent/chief division counsel.
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